The first change we need to see in the sport

Wrestling in Hawaii faces many challenges, keeping the kids on the mat can be one that’s easily remedied.

When you think of a wrestling coach, most think of a pitbull slobbering over their whistle waiting to weed out any non-conformist by pushing the practice. “Those that quit in the first week, well they wouldn’t have done anything on the mat anyway.”

First year wrestlers are much different than first year athletes in other sports. Basketball, baseball, and football coaches have no fear of having their kids quit. They can be as rigid and tough from the very first day. Why would they fear losing any kids? Those sports are in the media everyday, those kids have constant reminders of heroes they want to be, situations they dream about. “Bottom of the 9th, bases loaded, 3-2 count and down by 2 runs and your up to bat to win the game.” “2:00 minutes left in the game and your the quarterback who needs to drive your team down for the winning touchdown.” Who hasn’t dreamed of being the hero in those situations as a youngster? I know I definitely have.

Does anyone remember being a hero in a wrestling match growing up? doubt it. Wrestling is not a sport with much access to it from home.

Point is, if you were a high school student trying out wrestling for the very first time, and your coach is doing everything possible to make you quit, why wouldn’t you quit? It’s not like you’ve had any dreams of being a hero…yet.

Kamehameha, along with Punahou, always has the biggest team. Why? because Coach Chris and the Kamehameha staff does a great job in building the kids interest in the sport, and then running them through the wall. Not the other way around.

We need to build our kids interest in the sport, in order to build the kids. Tired of watching duel meets where most teams have kids in different weights so there is only a couple kids that get matches? Where’s the excitement in the team race when its all forfeits, and one sided? Have you ever stayed for the Finals in the Iolani Duel Meet Championships between Punahou and some mainland team? Or when Kamehameha battles a tight match with Punahou? As exciting as any other sport.

That’s the goal of my video productions, and the goal of websites like Matside Hawaii. Celebrating our athlete’s hard work, and giving the younger generation heroes to strive for. When I would run, I would always think about wrestlers I wanted to be like, Taylor Takata, Kawika Casco, Travis Lee, etc.

But first year wrestlers have no exposure, and no heroes yet, and “Without heroes, we are all just ordinary people, and we wouldn’t know how far to go-Bernard Malamud”

Comments

157 Responses to “The first change we need to see in the sport”
  1. Rick says:

    1st year wrestlers do have JV and Intermediate wrestling to build upon.

    As for heroes, I hope this inspires you.

    http://www.flowrestling.org/speaker/3224-Mitch-Ha

  2. Brandon Maki says:

    Right on Lucas!! Keep up your energy and love for the sport. I really appreciate what you do for these kids. The kids might not appreciate it now but, when they look back they'll realize how you helped wrestling and judo. No one but, matside and matmeticians give our sports what it deserves. Thank you again Jimmy and Lucas!!!

  3. Anonymous says:

    Matsidehawaii and Matmethicians really do a lot, and more than their fair share. But there are a lot of people out there pushing for both Judo and Wrestling. All give and do what they can with the time and resources they have.

    First, there are the coaches. Too many to name individually, but whether you're a Coach that falls into either of the categories Matmeticians speaks of, you're giving your time and passion. Whether you coach a team that's a pure opponent, friendly, or home, Thank you. I repeat: THANK YOU!

    Of that group, with respect to wrestling, you have to give special mention to John Robinson, Matt Oney, John Schmidtke, who've been devoted to Team Hawaii for decades. While you're at it, look at the Team Hawaii coach list for this year (2011 Fargo Blog #1).

    For Judo, on the high school level, there're Senseis Aoki, Fukuda, Hanashiro, and Migita who've made major historical and present day contributions. Sensei Chow has been a complete and dynamic Judo devotee since he showed up on the scene. Others are beginning to take their places to one day be revered in the historical record.

    Then there are those who contribute their administrative talents to the high school stuff on an overview level. HHSAA Wrestling Coordinator Keith Matusmoto, Judo Coordinator Blake Moritsugu, and increasingly, HHSAA Executive Director Chris Chun come to mind. Keith Amemiya grew all Hawaii High School sports with a fair and creative hand during his tenure at HHSAA. Wrestling and Judo were accounted for by him when it would have been easy to discard or ignore them(I'm sure of this). These guys who have worked behind the scenes for years to ensure wrestling and Judo in Hawaii have not indeed died.

    Then there are the key AD's of whom there are too few. Joel Kawachi keeps the fires burning in the OIA. Carl Schroers in the ILH. Jeaney Garcia is stepping up recently. Sorry, I don't know the names of the Maui or Big Island guys.

    When you talk about Matsidehawaii, you also have to talk about "T-Bone" (real name not provided purely out of absolute respect for his wishes). I don't think many really understand how much really valuable time and immense talent he's put into all of this. He and Jimmy did all of this basically on their own dimes – actually, on their own many, many dimes. I don't think anyone truly understands just how amazing this website is, and how lucky we are to have it.

    Then, add in the "civilians" (non-school, non-HHSAA personnel), of whom there are many. There are folks running wresting and Judo clubs in various pockets of this State. For Judo, there are the State Associations and dojos that are run by the sport's lifers. They ain't doing it to get rich. They do it out of love of sport. For wrestling, there are the guys who've taken the dive into the dark waters to set up gyms and clubs. Same thing. If there's any youth wrestling in Hawaii below the 7th grade level, it's because of them. And, I'm quite certain the time, talent and personal resources they expend simply do not equal objective ($$$) adequate return on investment. It's love of sport for all of them.

    You also gotta thank Chevron Hawaii, BIG TIME. Thank goodness Hawaii wresting has and has had Guardian Angels there. Would be nice to see First Hawaiian Bank or Hawaiian Airlines sponsor the State Judo Tourney.

    Sorry to those other major contributors out there I know exist, but have not yet encountered. I can only write what I know.

    But, even with all of those important and well intentioned hands at work, I think we all agree that wrestling and judo are among the red headed step children of the Hawaii high school sporting scene. In the ILH, any given Intermediate baskteball or volleyball team individually still gets waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more gym time, practice space, game events and uniform budget than wrestling or judo in a given year – especially on a per capita basis. The comparison of allocation of resources to a Varsity wrestling or judo team to a varsity football, basketball or baseball team is an absolute, sickening joke.

    And, unlike all those other sports mentioned, WE CLEAN UP BEFORE AND AFTER OURSELVES! Imagine watching the football team tending the field before or after (hahahahahahahahahahaha) practice, much less a game. Howabout the image of watching the football or basketball team pick up rubbish in the stands? Actually, don't watch if any of that ever happens. The utter confusion would lead to brain hemorrhage and then death.

    Sorry to digress, Matmeticians. But, "Rick" above is right. First year wrestlers and judoka do have opportunities, just not even close to enough to make the sport as attractive as it should be to kids, and certainly not enough to be fair or equitable within the state athletic system, nor enough to do objective justice to these great sports and take advantage of what they can provide within an educational context.

  4. Coach Lucas says:

    Thanks Brandon Maki. Your judo program is one of the good examples that I could have cited in this article about building a program the right way. You and Scott connect with the kids very well, and give them the right technical and physical knowledge.

  5. MakoShark says:

    Very intriguing posts.

  6. Anonymous says:

    I thInk you may have missed the entire message coach Lucas was trying to get across, Rick.

    • Anonymous says:

      There were two points in Coach Lucas' piece. Rick definitely was addressing the second (and last), and also seemed to be making a suggestion about the first.

      The basic question is how do we build enthusiasm in the kids?

  7. Anonymous says:

    There is really outstanding good news to report.

    Although there was some uncertainty, worry, if not fear, reports are that Justin Bieber is OK after his car accident.

  8. Mister Takedown says:

    Perhaps if we had Justin Bieber do a special performance for wrestlers only and do a meet and greet before the season we would get more wrestlers to tryout. Of course girls wrestling would be the chief beneficiary.

  9. Anonymous says:

    Wrestling is just to hard to be appealing to kids. Usually, if the kid sticks around after a few weeks of practice, they are more likely to continue, and really learn the true value of hard work and self dignity at a young age. That's just the way it is.

  10. Anonymous says:

    Not a real judo advocate more wrestling however why are we so concerned about trying to entice people into the sport rather than taking care of what we do have and let the sport attract whom it may.

    I prefer the idea of growing inside out rather than the reverse.

    Such as creating more opportunities, marketing what we do have.

    This year we have lots of Hawaii kids going to college and wrestling and I expect this trend to continue and not just girls anymore.

    • Anonymous says:

      You've got a really good point.

    • Coach Lucas says:

      yes, we do need people to build the foundation of the sport. Growing it inside out makes sense.

      What's just as important, is also to market and appeal to the public to build the support. Support is EVERYTHING. It doesnt matter if you are a non-profit, local business, or a high school sport, support is EVERYTHING. Everyone has a voice, and the more people we can get excited about the season and the athletes, the more momentum we have.

      If we stop recruiting and are only "concerned about trying to entice people into the sport rather than taking care of what we do have and attract whom it may", then participation levels die, competition dies, and eventually the candle runs dim.

      Businesses market to thousands of people to find hundreds of customers. It is all a numbers game. You never know who the next person that you bring in might become. Yes, business and sports run hand in hand. Anyone see the money poured in for football, baseball and basketball? Or looked at the business section of a bookstore and seen most authors are coaches and athletes teaching business principles.

      Having too much kids is a problem with limited mat space. But its a much better problem to have than having too little kids, and too much mat space. There is little excitement, little hype, and very little momentum. Trust me, I'm from the outer islands, and I know what its like in a room with only a few kids for the entire season. It doesnt give you much motivation or competition.

  11. Anonymous says:

    I honestly do not believe wrestling can ever achieve the same level of mass popularity or public support of football or basketball.

    Two reasons.

    First, there is the work involved. Wrestling implicitly values basic hard work. Let's face it, as a society we're losing that value. It should be on the endangered species list (maybe on a watch list, not a critical list). As it becomes devalued and avoided, the hard work aspect of wrestling is going to make it attractive to only a few (regardless of whether the hard work is in the first week of practice, or over a season or career). I wouldn't want to see wrestling lose that component just to attract numbers.

    Second, wrestling is a thinking person's sport. In fact, I think participation, much less success, requires a high degree of intelligence and is constantly forcing extended periods of intense concentration. Watching it is completely mentally exhausting. That's not necessarily true for most other sports. I frankly don't know many dumb wrestlers or wrestling parents at all. Alternatively, it seems like in order to achieve mass appeal, wrestling had to be dumbed down to WWE type shenanigans. Notice how a "true" wrestler has little time to or interest in watching WWE type wrestling.

    To me, the answer is to focus the work ethic and intelligence to make change happen.

    • Anonymous says:

      You are both right.

      On one hand, it is true that wrestling will never achieve the mass appeal of football, basketball and baseball. Those team sports are simply more marketable as spectator sports and the commitment required to wrestle screens out kids who participate only to be popular, etc.

      On the other hand, wrestling can attract more participants and spectators if the wrestling community works together to promote the virtues of our sport. We need to grow from the inside out and the outside in.

      There are states like Florida that used to be wrestling backwaters that are now producing a fairly large number of division I competitors. That was the result of the successful efforts of a relatively small number of passionate and talented proponents of the sport of wrestling.

      In Hawaii I think we are seeing an uptick in the number of committed boy/men wrestlers. I think this trend can continue if the wrestling advocates in our state pull together. Our geographical isolation will always put Hawaii at a disadvantage to compete depth-wise with the wrestling super-states. Despite this, with focus and commitment we can grow our sport more and see more of our boys (like Shayden, David and Marcus) compete at the highest level of our sport.

  12. Anonymous says:

    I think that the wrestling community is on the right track. The support for wrestling has not been better for the last ten years or so, and has been growing steadily. With the resent recruits at any level boy or girl has been proof that we are moving in the right direction.

    One problem that I see is that some club/school coaches only coach if they have a kid or family member wrestling, and once the kid graduates or drop out they no longer continue to coach. What we need is people with wrestling ecoaches to make sure before he/she quits there is some with the knowledge of wrestling to replace him/her

    • Anonymous says:

      One way to look at short time coaching is as a "problem". Another way to look at it is as a "blessing", however short.

      But you are absolutely right that knowledge must be passed on as much as possible.

  13. Anonymous says:

    I'm sorry you re rite. Its a blessing to have anyone to take the time to coach our kids.

    I think to be competitive at the national level we need more coaches with wrestling exsperience there is a big difference on knowledge between a wrestler and a none wrestler. We do have a lot of people in hawaii that have great knowlege of wrestling but ch

  14. Warrior Wrestling Fa says:

    I think we should ask the coaches from Punahou how we can improve. With the knowledge and experience they posses Coach Oney and Coach Jimmy could show the other Hawaii coaches a thing or two on what it takes to reach that next level. I hope they get that opportunity before it's too late.

  15. Me says:

    The secret to punahou success is recruiting.

    • Me Too says:

      "The secret to punahou success is recruiting."

      Explain to everyone how this Punahou recruiting process works.

      *WARNING* Bullshit meter has been activated.

      Complete your answer wisely or unending scrutiny will result.

  16. Me says:

    Look at the statistics. Besides the girls, how many men from the punahou wrestling team have gone on to the division 1 level? They recruit kids that are already decent if not good wrestlers and make them better as a team. If you look at the guys wrestling at the highest levels, I see kamehameha, maryknoll, and Damien.

    • Pun Dad says:

      Your statements, are not backed up by the facts. About 90% of Punahou wrestlers started in the Punahou or Pumas program with no experience. In the past six years, I can think of three boys who came in as decent wrestlers, and then improved thru the program (Toriumi, McCleary, Peralta). Without those wrestlers they would still be winning State Championships. They will have wrestlers competing at Stanford, Priceton, Johns Hopkins, NYU, Wesleyan, and Cornell College. Not all top Div 1 wrestling programs, because the academic priorities of the students.

      • Anonymous says:

        Peralta and McCleary improved by there own efforts which in turn improved the program, not the other way around. Let's be accurate.

        • Pun Dad says:

          All wrestlers who have or will make it up to the collegiate level , put in extra training above and beyond their high school programs. Nonetheless, lets not discount the contributions of the program, particularly one as prolific as Punahou.

        • Anonymous says:

          Peralta and McClery went out of their way to learn and get better. They had coach Brian who started the foundation for thoes two boys.

          Coach Brian was the key for thoes two boys success and punahou reap the benefits. Peralta and McClery knew that they needed to go out and find coaches with better technique to better their skills.

          They felt that they did not want it to happen to them, like what happen to Sheehan. because the coaches did not have enough exprience to take them to the next level. Peralta and McClery needed a coach with more national exprience. So they found a coach and the rest, speaks for its self. Peralta and McClery won their state titles and they Made punahou a better wrestling team, with the skills and knowledge that Peralta will bring to the room, both coaches and fellow wrestling will benefit and boast their wrestling up a notch!

          • Anony Must says:

            Please….

            Punahou has individuals who hold multiple state championships! McClery and Peralta have 1 each. "They improved the program" WTF! I would not place them in Punahou's all time best wrestler's, let alone the state.

            Be clear McCleary came in with huge hype from Virigina and got toasted, won the following year in what was considered a very weak weight class.

            Peralta had the hype of a 4 timer, beats a 10th grader for his title and not in the most dominating fashion.

            Sheehan has played upper classmen, multiple state champions in what some would call the most dominating weight class last year…

            sorry but your comparing apples to oranges….

            • Anonymous says:

              So you're saying that Chaeden Grace Reyes was in an unfair position because he was a underclassman? I can tell you firsthand that he worked his tail off and knew fully well who the top wrestlers at that weight were. Don't insult him by saying that he was somehow a lesser wrestler because he was a sophomore.

              • Anony Must says:

                YUP….

                It is very difficult for a 10th grader to win states at all let alone in that weight class. There is something called muscle maturity that heavily leans toward the older and more developed body.

                Don't think he would take it as an insult nor would his dad, I would go on record saying that if Perelta stays in Chaeden's weight class this year it will be a completely different result. I believe its to the point where someone is going to run….and it ain't Bubz.

            • Anonymous says:

              Wow, are you saying you have to be a multiple state camp to be even considered good! for punahou? wow weeeeeeeeeee.

              • Anony Must says:

                Nope..

                Just calling a spade a spade

                Why blame the Punahou coaching staff for not advancing when they have so many titles to prove otherwise

  17. Nacho Libre says:

    Wow, you actually believe Damien, Maryknoll and Kamehameha are producers of D1 talent? Time to bust your bubble. unless they can do it on a yearly basis, they simply got lucky to have landed a great individual wrestler.

    • Pun Dad says:

      I give these programs credit for their accomplished wrestlers. Very few programs nationally produce D1 wrestlers on a yearly basis. With wrestlers like Paihi, Josh, and Cassidy. These programs could potentially have multiple D1 wrestlers.

  18. Pun Dad says:

    I believe a key step in growing wrestling in Hawaii, will be the creation of more youth programs. Of course this is easier said than done, You need a Coach with wrestling experience willing to donate time and effort, likely for no compensation beyond a thank you. You will need support from the DOE to allow high school wrestling rooms and mats to be used in the off season.

    • Middlecool says:

      Yes that is the key!
      What: Adopt a Intermediate school for 10 weeks and have a season on Oahu to go with Maui's in 2014. Maui will host a "state wide" intermediate school only tournament for anyone who wants to represent a school.
      When: Friday February, 14th 2014. The night before MIL wrestling tournament.
      Where: In whatever High school gym the mats for MIL Saturday tournament is in.
      Who: Maui Waena Falcons 2013 defending intermediate boys champions and Lahaina Intermediate Ke Ali'i 2013 defending girls champions will run it for anyone who wants to take our titles away.
      Why: Like Pun Dad said…"the key to growing wrestling in Hawaii, will be the creation of more youth programs".
      How: It is easier said then done but can be done none the less.

  19. TOP GRADE says:

    that's easy, all we need to do is ask oney what did he learn from master chow because before chow stepped in, too overauled their wrestling program, they had a bunch of crappy wrestlers that couldn't wrestler to save their lives and the puma's wrestling club has been around before some of you parents were born. before master chow, punahou couldn't win even if they were paid too win. until chow got to punahou oney and jimmy did not have enough wrestling experience," knowledge" to win. but what they have learned from master chow and his own kids have made them much better coaches. punahou and all you wrestling parents should thank master chow for all of punahou's wrestling success. doesn't it feel good being on top. and for a wrestler that feeling is a 100 times greater, that only a wrestler can feel and understand. not even with the greatest imagination could you ever know" THE FEELING!" Aloha.

  20. Lee Foster says:

    First thing that needs to happen is unity. With out this, wrestling in Hawaii or any other state will not go anywhere. Just reading this thread alone you can see animosity towards certain people or organizations. Until you fix that you will basically be spinning your wheels.

    The next thing is constructive criticism. If the people in charge and any others can't get enough thick skin to take this once again you will spin your wheels. Ask any great wrestling coach across the nation and they will say they have taken constructive criticism at some point with a grain of salt and made adjustments to become successful.

    I think Pun Dad is on the right track. Youth programs are a must here. Look at any of the established or up and coming states with our sport and you will see youth programs have been put in place to strengthen numbers. There is no problem with people making money of this, however you will find that the more donated time you get enlarge the faster your area grows.

    Like I have said I am an outsider looking in. I tried to have an educated discussion on this matter on the other website however, like this site you have the comedians jump in. I am almost certain I will be jumped all over on this post however I ask those people to reread what I am posting.

    Finally there are a few things that separate Hawaii from other states in wrestling. Some are very positive and give Hawaii a definite edge on the nation. However, I see some others that stifle our sport here and contribute to slow growth. Just my opinion for what its worth.

    • Paul says:

      Howzit Mr.Lee

      It's been awhile, but I no you real busy coaching the girls teams.

    • Paul says:

      Oh sorry I pressed the rong button.

      I was just chekin on the job potentials cause I still looking.

      I no you a man of your word and I can count on you cause you are into wrestling and wrestling is honorable.

      Mahaloz Mr. Lee

    • Paul says:

      PS. You kno anybody who hirng in the bars and stuff? Im pretty go at making drinks so if you get anyhting like that thas cool.

    • eFamous says:

      "paul", i think i'm speaking for a lot of people when I say that your posts are retarded and your sense of sarcasm and humor… sucks donkey balls… literally. please post something of substance and on topic, instead of wasting everyone's time with your recess humor, your posts are taking up valuable board space.

      as for the topic of discussion. in order to grow the programs, you need to make the sport more public. what would motivate a kid to try wrestling out, a sport that hardly has any exposure, when most don't even know what it's about. It would do a lot for the sport to have the matches recorded and broadcast on public television either through olelo or OC16. it would also require good commentary by engaging and knowledgeable people. This type of media exposure would grow interest and support by informing and educating kids and parents on the sport. It's hard to follow something when you know nothing about it, and getting the information/rules requires a lot of effort. this isn't a easy solution, but having a sport getting more exposure and coverage is key.

      if you compared the exposure wrestling has in the newspaper, a once a year splash for state championship with other sports, wrestling exposure is minimal. you don't necessarily have to have a epic media campaign, but more stories/editorials will increase further knowledge and education of the sport. for many will grow the interest and support for the sport too.

      anyway, that's my thoughts on the topic :). good post, wish it wasn't filled with all this

      • Paul says:

        Howzit efamous,

        you get one cool name. was your dad or yor mom that when pickit?

        my family are reall simple thas why they called me paul.

        Mahalo Paul

        • eFamous says:

          "HOWZIT BRADDAH!"

          thanks for the compliment :), it's understandable why things must be kept simple for you…

          anything else you want to add to the topic of improving wrestling in the state?

          • Anonymous says:

            "“HOWZIT BRADDAH!”

            thanks for the compliment 🙂 , it’s understandable why things must be kept simple for you…"

            . . . he says to the one who appears to be the most intelligent one on this board. . .

      • Anonymous says:

        efamous,

        I enjoy Paul's posts.

        Dave Vinton is the Director of Sports Programming for OC16.

        I remember looking for an OC16 email for him before and found one. But couldn't find one this time on Google.

        Maybe if he began to get a lot of emails "encouraging" that he take a look at broadcasting States (at least), it would make a difference.

        Here are the contact links I could find:

        Comment on his OC16 blog:

        http://www.oc16.tv/daves_blogs/196

        Facebook:

        http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=1215431

        OC16 general contact page:

        http://www.oc16.tv/contacts

    • Anonymous says:

      I agree with you Mr. Lee and Pun Dad. It start with our youth clubs and a whole lot of love from the supporters, wrestling is not a money generating sport it really lives or dies on the backs of the volunteers, coaches, parents and everyone else. But one thing is for sure, you can always count on a comedian to put in his two cents.

      • eFamous says:

        can you be considered a comedian when you aren't even funny…?

        a lot of the coaches and parents support the sport because they love it, not because they plan to make money off it.

      • Anonymous says:

        "I agree with you Mr. Lee and Pun Dad. It start with our youth clubs and a whole lot of love from the supporters, wrestling is not a money generating sport it really lives or dies on the backs of the volunteers, coaches, parents and everyone else."

        I totally disagree with this. What it will take to see change in our lifetimes, is a concerted effort aimed at the top down. If you leave it only to "youth clubs", then you run the risk that exactly what does happen will happen, that being that by the time the kids get into middle school, the lack of top down support makes wrestling and judo second class citizens and thus less attractive.

        Make wrestling and judo "rocking" at the high school level, and the existing clubs will be turning people away with new youth clubs springing up all over the creation. If there's one thing Hawaii is, it's responsive to the latest thing, no matter how absurd (remember pogs?). The thing about wrestling is that it has long term sticking power IF it is given a chance.

        The key is to get the leagues, the principals and the ad's to support it. They're not going to do it on principle. They get too much jollies from football, they're mired in the historical significance of basketball (and obviously, MUST continue Hawaii's major pipeline to DI basketball opportunities), and the baseball and volleyball parents/supporters are totally vicious.

        Noise aimed at the decision makers will make a difference. It's got to be well-reasoned, logical noise, but it can definitely make a difference.

    • Anonymous1 says:

      I disagree…

      What we need is rivalry not unity! The sport will unify itself but the athletes and coaches need to crave to beat the next guy, the next club, the next school and so on. This will create a sense of competition and wanting to become the best at all facets will drive the level through the roof.

      Its sounds savage and almost primal, here is my example: The American Government= Democrats vs Republicans. Competition will always drive anyone to accomplish more, be better, faster, stronger.

      Take for example our local judo clubs, Does a rivalry exist? I know its there some may speak of it softly and other loudly but it does exist!

      As far idiotic post; its going to happen and perhaps you need to take a bit of your own advice and have a little more thick skin and continue to post. There is always idiots, napoleonic syndromers and people who dont think their crap stinks. They are also part of it and you need idiots around as they confirm the good that most want to do.

      The more clubs, more mat time, more opportunities, more competition, the more this sport grows!

      I also believe the sport is growing faster than ever in the last couple of years and we are positioning ourselves pretty damn nicely.

      This is Just My Opinion

      **also keep posting as better to much info than not enough

  21. Anonymous says:

    Ask and it shall be given you; seek and ye shall find

  22. Me says:

    So now the reason for the success of punahou comes upon outstanding individuals that make a team overall better? Seems to add backing to my point that punahou recruits. How else do guys of that stature all end on the same team?

  23. Me Too says:

    No it doesn't add any backing to your recruiting point. What it does show is that their families value a top notch education. That's why they landed at Punahou.

    • Anonymous says:

      I'm willing to bet that most here understand that there really isn't much, if any "recruting" occurring in wrestling in this State. The basic reason is why we're all here biatchin'. Wrestling isn't important enough in the eyes of the powers that be to merit the type of resource support that would constituted improper recruiting.

      But, since accusations have been made, I submit the following:

      What is the "recruiting" that's being written of here?

      I know a few of the kids mentioned on this thread, and I will assure you that none were "recruited" – they are EXACTLY where their parents hoped and prayed they'd be, and the proscribed sports "recruiting" conduct, and therefore everyone's suspicions, simply do not apply to them.

      But, every private school in this State recruits on some level. Academics, money, power, continued existence, religion, guilt, sports. Read the paper. See the private school ads every year? Those are recruiting advertisements. Kama'aina Kids is constantly recruiting – way more than Punahou or Iolani (But not as much recently as St. Louis).

      I'm only aware of there being rules against "recruiting" in sports. But the last I read, those rules were very thin, and loopholed.

      Plus, there is apparently no enforcement of the rules that do exist. To a certain degree, if a prohibition is not enforced, then it is no longer a prohibition. If the governing bodies aren't willing or able to do anything about improper recruiting (of which I personally have no provable, actual knowledge EVER occurring – and neither do any of you, unless you or your kid is/was a beneficiary), then if it is occurring, it would appear to actually be OK.

      Anyone with a bone to pick about sports "recruiting" is barking up the wrong tree for criticizing any institution, assuming improper recruting is even happening. If there is something wrong, then the responsibility rests with the governing leagues, organizations and the DOE, at the very least to take SOME action. If there is no enforcement, you can't blame anyone for doing it, at least on the most neanderthal level. Everyone likes to win.

      But, try this. Pick a given kid who you think is a recruit. ASSUME that kid is where he/she is at BECAUSE he/she was recruited (in violation of rules even).

      What's wrong with that?

      And, how is it any of your business?

      In fact, even if you're a Coach affected by a recruiting situation, rules aside, just what makes you think you in any way have any ownership rights to a given kid? To tell him/her or the parents where they HAVE TO go to school (or risk not being able to participate in sports). (Note: slavery in the US was abolished in 1865).

      Everytime I read someone complaining about "recruiting", my first thought is, "eh, lucky thing the kid got away from that sucker, he/she is in a better place." Then, I immediately feel empathy, if not sympathy. 'Cause, there are constant reminders, not only with respect to school opportunities, that the world just ain't that fair a place. So, make no mistake, I empathize with the frustration that the CONCEPT of recruiting stirs.

      To me, if you're concerned about sports "recruiting", then your energy is best spent trying to make the DOE better across the board. The day kids and their parents don't want to be at private schools, or another public school is the day "recruiting" is no longer an issue.

      People are going to gravitate toward situations they feel are most advantageous. In my view, you've gotta be pretty narrow minded to blame either them or whatever forces provide them the opportunity?

      • Anonymous1 says:

        Only exception to your article:

        St.Louis recruits more than Punahou? Are you kidding me!!!

        I talked to some of the parents on the football team and they all laugh calling it "Poly"hou and they speak of their kids.

        but I don't blame them one bit…..if you got it, flaunt it

        • Anonymous says:

          I was referring to St. Louis' recent media recruiting blitz. They weren't necessarily looking for athletes, I don't think. I think they needed to increase their enrollment.

          My point is, how is that recruiting any different from the claimed sports recruiting? St. Louis was offering $2,000 no questions asked tuition discount for new enrollees.

          I seriously doubt there would be any sort of outcry against a good student/non-athlete whose family decided to send their son to St. Louis.

          The thing is, to me, that's a greater loss to a public school district. All of a sudden, it's lost a conscientious family concerned about the education of their child.

          And, by the way, I don't blame St. Louis for advertising or "recruiting" in the fashion I write of.

  24. kamboy says:

    who cares what school you went, i myself didnt when i went to kamehameha. let the coaches coach, and wrestlers wrestle:)

  25. Lee Foster says:

    Unity does not have anything to do with the "rivalry" or being competitive. The unity I speak of is everyone having the same common goal of getting this sport to a higher level on the national scene. Take for instance some of the leading states for our sport such as Illinois, PA, Iowa, etc. they are all highly competitive with in their respective areas or even nationally, however they are also unified for the most part in the over all promotion of the sport.

    As for people expressing I should have thicker skin, believe me I do. However, ignorance should not be tolerated for any person on this or any other board. Also, the person posting under "paul" is obviously annoying others. Not sure why people come on these types of forums to try and be comedians but I guess you can not argue with ignorance.

    Now back to subject. I think there isn't just one thing you can put your finger on but a wide range of solutions. The more people you have involved from top to bottom the more likely you will have a better fit for your region. That is what I was expressing on the constructive criticism. Most people in power positions do not like to be criticized nor told how to run things. Iowa has districts for coaches to meet every year to voice opinions on what they feel are important issues to be addressed at the "state" meeting with the association. I like many others back in Iowa feel this process isn't always in the best interest of the sport, but it is however a process set in place. Ultimately the high ups will do what they wish for the most part, but giving input helps. I am not sure what is the process here.

    I am not sure who brought up the support item, but this is really something that needs to be also. This support must come from with in and also from the AD, coaches, community and yes the higher powers. I have suggested to some to go to other states or even talk to other coaches from these states and ask how they have come to the status they have. To give you and idea the Iowa state tournament finals sales out every year and is attended by close to 15,000 fans. On average I believe over 7000 or better fans attend each of 7 other sessions over a 4 day span. Although we are basically nuts there it gives you an idea on what kind of state wide support we have.

  26. Anonymous says:

    Lee Foster: "The unity I speak of is everyone having the same common goal of getting this sport to a higher level on the national scene."

    This Anonymous: We already have that. It may not seem that way to you, but everyone involved in Hawaii wrestling wants that on some level. Ergo, same common goal exists.

    Lee Foster: Take for instance some of the leading states for our sport such as Illinois, PA, Iowa, etc. they are all highly competitive with in their respective areas or even nationally, however they are also unified for the most part in the over all promotion of the sport.

    This Anonymous: Yeah, but surfing is pretty unified over here, as is volleyball, football and baseball. Baseball and surfing are two sports that are played extensively in the winter months here, but not at all in Ill., Pa. or Ia. in one case, and almost not at all in the other. The demographics and competing interests are completely different here. It's easy to be unified, or actually, prominent when there is a high level of interest. This wrestling community here is unified, it's just small, and bigger pieces of the pie go to other sports and activities.

    Lee Foster: As for people expressing I should have thicker skin, believe me I do. However, ignorance should not be tolerated for any person on this or any other board. Also, the person posting under “paul” is obviously annoying others. Not sure why people come on these types of forums to try and be comedians but I guess you can not argue with ignorance.

    This Anonymous: Ignorance appears to have nothing to do with Paul's posts. You wanna be "the man", be it for everyone, including Paul. Get him a job. He seems to need one.

    Lee Foster: I think there isn’t just one thing you can put your finger on but a wide range of solutions. The more people you have involved from top to bottom the more likely you will have a better fit for your region. That is what I was expressing on the constructive criticism. Most people in power positions do not like to be criticized nor told how to run things. Iowa has districts for coaches to meet every year to voice opinions on what they feel are important issues to be addressed at the “state” meeting with the association. I like many others back in Iowa feel this process isn’t always in the best interest of the sport, but it is however a process set in place. Ultimately the high ups will do what they wish for the most part, but giving input helps. I am not sure what is the process here.

    This Anonymous: I have no idea what you're trying to say.

    Lee Foster: I am not sure who brought up the support item, but this is really something that needs to be also. This support must come from with in and also from the AD, coaches, community and yes the higher powers. I have suggested to some to go to other states or even talk to other coaches from these states and ask how they have come to the status they have. To give you and idea the Iowa state tournament finals sales out every year and is attended by close to 15,000 fans. On average I believe over 7000 or better fans attend each of 7 other sessions over a 4 day span. Although we are basically nuts there it gives you an idea on what kind of state wide support we have.

    This Anonymous: What do Iowa's State Tournament attendance figures have to do with compelling Hawaii "higher powers" to support wrestling? Moreover, Iowa has 3x Hawaii's population, and contiguous States' residents who might be interested in Iowa wrestling and drive across the boarder(s) to attend (so actually, Hawaii is doing pretty good percentage wise).

    I will guarantee you that local ADs etc. would have a hard time ignoring wrestling if 15,000 fans showed up. But that ain't gonna happen in Hawaii. It doesn't even happen for the State Football Championship.

    • Lee Foster says:

      If you say you have unity here I guess that is your observation. I am an outsider looking in and I don't see this, I see more disparity than unity. Just my observation.

      I thought this whole thread was made to see how to boost participation in Hawaii am I wrong on this? So not really understanding the whole surfing analogy.

      The "paul" statement falls in line with the ignorance I continue to say. Not sure where you or any person that comments this way towards me thinks I have ever said I am "the man". Also, this subject is quite frankly ignorant and an obvious ploy to get attention or make a sore attempt at being funny.

      I am sorry you can not grasp what I am saying in the next statement. I think it is pretty self explanatory.

      Once again I am sorry you have a tough time reading and understanding however if you read my last sentence it basically explains why I have put forth this information. Please reread and maybe you will understand.

      I have never said those sorts of numbers should be obtained here. It was simply put out there as a reference. The bottom line is that support needs to be from top to bottom for the sport to grow. Negative thinking like "ain’t gonna happen in Hawaii" gets you absolutely no where. Do you really think all the other states that have large followings, received them over night? Absolutely not!! It will take time and a group effort amongst all.

      Finally, personal attacks on me or any other person trying give possible positive options or methods to help promote wrestling, are simply put counter productive.

      • Anonymous says:

        What negative comment toward you?

        • Lee Foster says:

          Where in this post do you see me saying anything about a "negative comment towards me"?

        • Anonymous says:

          Correction: What personal attacks on you?

          • Lee Foster says:

            First there have personal attacks on me in other threads. An example of this in this current thread is "This Anonymous: Ignorance appears to have nothing to do with Paul’s posts. You wanna be “the man”, be it for everyone, including Paul. Get him a job. He seems to need one."

            If you can not see a personal attack there I am once again sorry for that.

            • Anonymous says:

              Can't see how that's a personal attack. Could you explain?

              • Anonymous says:

                Being called out publicly and antagonized is a personal attack. If you dont believe me, post your name and lets talk about you, if you dont get defensive, then you are right, if you do get defensive, then Lee Foster is right.

              • Anonymous says:

                "Being called out publicly and antagonized is a personal attack".

                What's being "called out publicly"?

                Is Lee Foster being "antagonized"? How?

              • Anonymous says:

                What’s wrong? How come you don’t want to Post your name? I’m sure you can’t learn how to ride a bike by reading. You just have to experience it. Prove yourself right 🙂

            • Paul says:

              Howzit coach Lee this is Paul,

              I knew you wood come back. no worry I have good feelings about you. Keep doin what you doin and you gonna be happy at doin that.

              And coach thanks for the shout out I could really use a job.

              If you need help wit the girls that you coach brah Im there!

              Any kind help you need, im there!

              Im just a hawaiian native tring to survive!

              Mahaloz,

              Paul

            • Anonymous says:

              Da guy who decide who rite who wrong who ignorant gatta be da man.

      • Anonymous says:

        I smell the stench of bungahead on this one, don't worry lee foster, if your not getting along with bungahead, its something the entire wrestling community has in common. W don't agree on a lot of things, but we all agree to hate bungahead…

      • Anonymous1 says:

        OK, Could you provide a "real" solution to the problems you see being that you are an outsider looking in? Is it not the same problems faced all around the country? Colleges are dropping their wrestling programs even in the mid-west.

        You start losing me when you talk about ignorance should not be tolerated, everyone on the same page. To me that's a pipe dream that ain't never going to happen in Iowa or anywhere else for that matter. I need meat and potatoes, not just the gravy.

        I am trying to keep an open mind and want you to continue to provide input like everyone else here including "paul" but would prefer if you can provide some of your solutions.

        • Coach Lucas says:

          Educating spectators about our sport would be a BIG help. Have you ever watched a high school wrestling match on flowrestling? Have you ever watched the NCAA Finals?

          Unless you know exactly whats going on and watched the entire match, you would not be able to tell whats going on in a video on flowrestling.

          The NCAA Finals has a box on the screen, it tells the score, it tells the time, it tells the period, and it can lead your imagination to the drama thats about to unfold in front your eyes because you know whats going on.

          Putting up a score board, (which i dont know how to do in my videos) is a small ticket that will go very far. I myself cant stay tuned into a match unless i know the score. We watch sports for the drama, for the question we ask inside our heads of "what happens next?" and we cant do that without knowing whats going on in the first place.

          • Coach Lucas says:

            im speaking strictly of videos, which spectators can watch in the comfort of their own home, and get interested in the sport and the matchups.

            There is always a lot on the line, which is why participants, parents, and coaches love the sport, its time to educate the common outsider about how important certain matchups are and what they mean

          • Anonymous says:

            Whenever I know someone who is either about to attend wrestling for the first time, is having a hard time grasping the rules, or just doesn't know what the heck is going on despite their best efforts to understand, I refer them to websites like this one:

            http://rbillitz.tripod.com/rules.htm

            At the very least, maybe the schools or leagues could pass out sheets with that stuff at meets and tournaments.

        • Lee Foster says:

          Anonymous1- There is no magic wand I can wave nor is there one solution to this problem. Education is about the only thing that can help to be quite frank. That's why I say there is no room for ignorance.

          I am nor have I ever said there isn't a problem throughout the nation with our sport. The basis of this thread or article was how can wrestling be more attractive to the young men and women here. I use Iowa as a backing for some of my points, for the simple reason that is where I was born and raised, and that is where my wrestling back ground comes from.

          There is no pipe dream my friend. It is simple facts. You bring up the fact that college programs are being dropped. Do you have a clue why? Do you understand that numbers of high school aged wrestlers is on a rise in the nation? Maybe facts like these might actually help you and others speak more properly about the sport then to make general statements.

          Educating yourself on subjects is simply a great tool to make things better. Being ignorant to the facts of matters causes disparity and ultimately becomes counter productive.

          As I stated in an earlier post there is no one cause for the problems here or anywhere else. It is a culmination of things that causes stagnant growth not only here but in other places. Coming to a positive meeting of minds and trying to find the root of those problems,does wonders.

          Understanding the true meaning of this sport might truly help the growth everywhere. I have said it publicly on the Iowa boards and been criticized for doing so, but I will say it here also. Until our youth quit being basically lazy our sport won't grow. It takes a lot of dedication and sacrifice to do well in this sport. Basic fact is not a lot of kids are willing to put in thousands of hours of practice and time for a possibility of no guarantee of that 15 minutes of fame!

          • Anonymous says:

            "There is no pipe dream my friend. It is simple facts. You bring up the fact that college programs are being dropped. Do you have a clue why? Do you understand that numbers of high school aged wrestlers is on a rise in the nation? Maybe facts like these might actually help you and others speak more properly about the sport then to make general statements."

            Why are college programs being dropped?

            How does knowledge that the number of high school aged wrestlers is on the rise in the nation help Anonymous1 and others speak more properly about the sport?

          • Anonymous1 says:

            Lee Foster,

            First you say unity, second constructive criticism and now you say the youth are basically lazy. I still feel this more of a blanket statement of known facts yet no real solutions. More like a political stance of not trying to step on anyone toes.

            Facts? Could your question be termed as, "Facts according to…"

            The fact is college wrestling programs have and continue to be dropped at an alarming rate, averaging more than 2 a year at the D1 Level. Programs are reluctant to say the exact reason why but have indicated Title IX and "MONEY" issues.

            Its not only wrestling numbers that have increased but its sports almost across the board that have seen their numbers go up. Could it be the school systems are being over populated, while are nations population goes through the roof? I am really trying to be educated however I feel like I'm not and all though you term me ignorant you provide no solution….

            Do you feel we still live in grass shacks and play ukulele's all day long? The things that you have provided is very common knowledge, I really wanted to focus more on your insight and solutions, you are still just providing "known issues"

            Wrestling has grown leaps and bounds from 10-15 years ago, there are 5X more youth clubs than there has ever been. More participation at all levels and more kids from Hawaii moving on from high school and continue wrestling at the next level. Sure we have problems at high levels, like Keith Matsumoto the guy is in a position to influence positive change but its more of an old network "good old boy" type, lots of strings attached.

            Iowa is the holy mecca of wrestling so I kind of expected more from your post not the same old rhetoric.

            BTW, when a member of the IOWA HAWKEYE's staff was here doing a clinic last year……where were you???

            Maybe your not the only one who hails from Iowa who know calls Hawaii Home…

            • Anonymous says:

              Anonymous1:

              Agree with virtually everything you said, except this:

              "Sure we have problems at high levels, like Keith Matsumoto the guy is in a position to influence positive change but its more of an old network “good old boy” type, lots of strings attached."

              I've personally seen actual positive change and admirable effort to effect positive change from Matsumoto (who has a real job, and a kid in addition to what he does for Hawaii wrestling).

              Remember, he's the HHSAA Wrestling Coordinator. He has no control over gym scheduling, no control over the manner individual schools operate their programs, no rule making authority, and, like the HHSAA staff in general, no control over what the schools and ADs decide to do.

              In my mind, wrestling and judo have been kept alive and operating, and in fact grown somewhat on the high school scene because of guys like Matsumoto, Chris Chun, and Keith Amemiya. Without their skill, fair attitudes and big picture perspectives, I think wrestling and judo would be deeper in the shadows than they already are.

              • Anonymous1 says:

                I see your point and truly respect a guy like Amemiya who has done just about everything for all sports related to Hawaii.

                It drives me crazy at state tournaments when we need a half a day to weigh in while I have seen first hand on the mainland the process being quick and deliberate.

                I would also like to see our community spotlight the state final matches, not run them all together lets put some weight in reaching the final. I hear this is all the doing of K.M., not wanting to grow and expand, not really into status quo thingy.

                HI STATE WRESTLING TOURNAMENT – The Superbowl of Hawaii wrestling, arguably the biggest high school event for wrestling and the FINALS are treated like any other day besides being in the Arena. You want to attract kids to this sport, I believe you need to treat it as the spectacle that it is, its a STATE FINAL!! Don't throw it all together and have spectators catch glimpses of what these kids work hard to do.

                Imagine having the final four play in the same gym on two different courts, NFC & AFC Championships games played at the same location at the same time, UFC having 8 rings in an arena and all main events…at the same time. It Bites!!

                Not sure how many have been to state finals on the mainland but it is something to behold…

                OK done venting….LOL

              • Anonymous says:

                Here's my impression of some issues regarding the Hawaii State Wrestling Tournament.

                General:

                First, there is he basic problem. Allocation of resources. Whether it be in terms of days of competition, availability of venues, $$ available for whatever, or manpower, I think wrestling gets a small piece of the official pie.

                I've seen Blaisdell being set up for the tournament. It's being done by the same guys who set up the tournaments at the schools, including Matsumoto, a couple of the very few wrestling devoted ADs, and Coaches.

                I've seen the mats cleaned before the competition day starts. It's being done by the kids and parents.

                I've seen the tournament broken down. Fairly long after most of the crowd leaves, the kids are still rolling up mats.

                Long after most of the kids leave, Matsumoto and some others are still breaking down the head table. I don't know what time that is, but I know Zippy's is the only place open.

                I've never returned mats to a school (I don't think they're stored at Blaisdell the night of the Finals). So, I think there are people (not school's maintenance staffs, but coaches and parents – at least 6 sets) who are loading, transporting, unloading and securing mats long after festivities end.

                Timing:

                Blaisdell is reserved for Wrestling for 3 days. The day before the tournament starts, there's a set up day. Then the tournament is run for two consecutive days. I bet money there are ADs who seriously ask why the Tournament can't be set up, run and broken down in 1 day. I'd also bet money that if the question came down to making teams in the State basketball tournament play games with 4 hours of rest in between on the same day, or cutting the wrestling tournament down to 1 day, the vote would be to cut wrestling.

                Remember that the back side has to be completed before you get to the final round. I think the backside alone requires 3 separate rounds, and the front side requires two. That means the 2nd day, there are less wrestlers, but more rounds.

                The wrestlers are supposed to get a minimum (and paltry) 45 minutes rest between matches.

                Seems like there's a pretty constant flow of wrestling throughout the day, except for a pretty good pause before the finals, which makes sense to me.

                The finals require allocation of no less than 2.5 hours of actual match time to complete (24 matches x 6 mins. is the actual run time that has to be allotted. Actually, way more has to be planned for because of transition breaks between matches, breaks between rounds, referees' conferences, protests and injury times).

                My guess is that they plan for 3.5 hours, at least, to run the finals. I wouldn't be surprised if it were more.

                Overall, I agree with you, though. It would be nice to see the finals highlighted more. Actually, it would be nice to see each of the placer matches highlighted and built up to. That alone would take a whole day, though.

                Weigh Ins:

                Weigh ins are held at 8:30 a.m. on both days. Wrestling starts at 10:00 a.m.

                I think there are complications that arise due to skin problems and protests.

                I guess the weigh ins could start earlier. But, I think the kids who cut weight should get a reasonable portion of the morning to do so.

      • Anonymous says:

        "I thought this whole thread was made to see how to boost participation in Hawaii am I wrong on this? So not really understanding the whole surfing analogy."

        Here's my point on the surfing (and volleyball, and football, and baseball) analogy:

        1. The point goes primarily to the inapplicability of the Ill., Pa. or Ia. experience in wrestling to Hawaii's situation.

        2. Every place has its own environment and personality. Some places have similar ones. Others differ drastically from one another. Hawaii differs drastically from Ill., Pa. and Ia.

        3. Hawaii's environment has a lot to do with that. Our winters are tropical and therefore mild compared to the other states mentioned. Whereas Ill., Pa. and Ia. kids are generally driven indoors for non-snow related winter sports, Hawaii kids aren't.

        4. Hawaii's tropical environment also provides a completely separate dynamic in competition with a sport like wrestling, but definitely a distinguishing point relative to Ill., Pa. and Ia. First, we have access to the ocean. Second, it is totally usable throughout the year. Surfing is the most prominent example of this, but the related activities of paddling, boogie boarding, diving, fishing, and "cruising at the beach" are also factors.

        5. Hawaii surfing is also a well organized and supported (so, ostensibly "unified") sport here. It's a big part of Hawaii's economy. That's one big reason why. There is also pervasive love of the sport here. So, it is a magnet to other surf lovers from outside Hawaii. Thus, surfing enjoys high participation here, perhaps the highest in the Nation, but no doubt the highest per capita.

        Surfing also is part of Hawaii's identity. As surfing goes, so goes Hawaii news (where else is there a "surf report"?), Hawaii fashion, Hawaii attitude (surf's up, brah), and Hawaii's fortunes (what do you think the reaction would be to building a wrestling room on, adjacent to, or even anywhere remotely near Waikiki Beach?)

        Because of the fact that "surf" exists here, it is a focus and exploited. Those factors lead to interest. Interest leads to incentive to organize. Environment plus interest plus organization leads to participation.

        But, the closest relevance Ill., Pa., and Ia. wrestling might have to Hawaii surfing is that Hawaii surfing is organized and supported (or "unified") closer to how Ill., Pa., and Ia. wrestling is than how Hawaii wrestling is or really ever could be.

        You want a model for how to organize something in Hawaii or for something that has broad participation and support? Start with surfing or paddling. Their organizations are mature and powerful. We could only dream that the same forces who control surfing would shift their focus to or even share their resources with wrestling.

        Then, go to volleyball. Since you didn't mention the reference to volleyball in your response, I'll assume you understood why it was referenced and won't elaborate too much separately on my views regarding that sport's organization.

        6. What is relevant about volleyball to this discussion is that, in my view, the water sports and volleyball organizational structures are unique to Hawaii. And, both can be and are played extensively during wrestling seasons.

        Does Iowa have surfing? I know it must have volleyball. What does the organizational structure of volleyball look like in Iowa?

        Does Iowa have hockey? Hawaii doesn't on any sort of meaningful level. On the other hand, my sense is that even though it's a cold weather sport, Iowa has a limited hockey tradition for lack of a lot of water that freezes over.

        So, to me, it makes sense from the perspective of what the environment provides that wrestling is big in Ia., but competes with hockey in Minnesota.

        In addition to environment, there is culture that drives both. For instance, volleyball's intrinsic attractiveness as a sport and to Hawaii is enhanced significantly by what UH has done with the sport. As between the two, I'm not sure what is the chicken and what is the egg.

        7. Baseball can be played in the winter here under spring and and summer conditions. It draws kids away from wrestling, or, more accurately, keeps kids away from wrestling here. I'm certain of this.

        8. Football is king just about everywhere in the US. Hopefully, football parents and coaches will begin to realize that wrestling enhances performance on the football field. On the other hand, wrestling has real, built in and perceived barriers to its gaining wide acceptance by the football crowd. That might be the only thing Hawaii, Ill., Pa. and Ia have in common.

        9. Rightly or wrongly (and I view it as rightly, sad but rightly. Or, at least not wrongly), Hawaii's environment and population is situated so that there are factors militating strongly against wrestling taking hold as in Ill., Pa. and/or Ia. So much so, in fact, that I think Ill., Pa. and/or Ia. are really bad examples of where Hawaii should look in order to enhance or build up wrestling.

        To a large degree, in order to have a kid and family commit to wrestling, they will have to forego the opportunity (or the perceived opportunity) or cultural disposition/lifestyle to want to excel at surfing, volleyball, baseball, and of course, football. And, from a college scholarship availability percentage, it frankly makes sense for kids to try and excel at football, volleyball and/or baseball.

        10. lrem1 mentioned Florida's experience as a model. I think that could be a really good example, particularly to the extent Florida wrestling must compete with football, has seen a recent rise in participation, and has the same warm weather forces. For many reasons, including objectively, raising Florida as an example (as opposed to Ill., Pa., and/or Ia.) strikes me to be characteristically (for lrem1) insightful.

        11. Ultimately, the trick to elevating wrestling in Hawaii to where everyone reading wants it to be is to find as way to fit it into the existing structure of competing interests (which are all legitimate, in my view), traditional prejudices (not so legitimate, but understandable), and far more limited resources than larger States (e.g. It would be GREAT to move the Fargo tournament to Hawaii, or create one like it. But we can't host it on the order of size of Fargo. We have no place like the Fargodome to put it).

        12. So, to me, it's a waste of time to try and model what goes on in Ill., Pa., or Ia. with respect to wrestling. And, surfing is a good example/metaphor for why.

        13. Hope that clears up the reference to surfing. My apologies to anyone who didn't understand where I was going with it.

        • Lee Foster says:

          I won't even began to try and comment on each issue you present in this post.

          Have you been to any of the states I have mentioned? That might help you make a better statement. You use surfing as a basic distraction or item that pulls kids away from the sport here and give other examples. I won't argue that point as I have not enough knowledge on that, however I will say there are many things in all those states that do the same as surfing does here. Just because you have surfing and nice weather here, do you think the midwest people just hibernate in doors? There is skiing, hunting, hockey, and many more that cause issues as well as the common ones here.

          I have said it time and time again there is no one issue or solution to point at. Although as obvious as you state my stated problems are, they still are present. So if they are so obvious why haven't they been corrected?

          With any issue or problem you try to find the source and work from there. If you can not find this source you try and come up with reasonable solutions that will help the mass and not the individual. As for you wanting me to give resolution to Hawaii's problems, I have set forth some problems I have seen in what little time I have been here. I will be able to see more and more as time goes forth. I also don't claim to have all the answers, but I am in contact with a large enough network that I could ask and find answers.

          As for the "HAWKEYE STAFF MEMBER" that was here and you are asking where was I, I answer with this; Who was this staff member? When was he here (date)? and there in it's self lies another problem! It seems I have to do some big time digging and making a ton of phone calls to find out simple and complex events here. Work on that then start asking about where I may or may not be. Also if that is not calling me out or a personal attack I don't know what else is.

          Another problem I see here and it is prevalent in this thread is the constant drive for everyone to be the "it guy". Although egos are great to have as a coach, a humble ego goes much further than and arrogant one. As mentioned many times prior and it looks like I will have to continue to repeat myself. I have never claimed to know all, nor have I claimed to be the "it guy". My only claim is that I have vast knowledge of this sport and an obvious different style/view.

          Finally, the reason I used those three states was because they are established and have a fairly unified system. There will never be a fully unified system that is completely unreal, I know this. But if you ask any southern state that is "newly" on the scene of wrestling they will say the look at these states as a basis. Look at most "new" college and/or high school programs and see where their coaches are coming from. The midwest is usually the answer. I think it is common sense here. My point is when you are trying to get any program to the be with the top ones, you inherently look at those programs and see how they made it to the point where they are. Since you use surfing as an example I say this, if any state had the ability to do this sport don't you think they would look towards Hawaii on how to make it a premier sport? They would adapt their surroundings and take not all but some very key points from Hawaii to make their state comparable.

          Bottom line is why do you and the other anonymous posters that constantly single me out do this?

          • Anonymous says:

            You're mixing your Anonymouses.

          • Hawaii#1 says:

            Good point Mr. Foster I like and respect your views. Don't take things personal, sometimes us people from Hawaii like to push other peoples botton (test) especially if you are a new comer. This really brings out the true character of a person, because we get alot of people from out of state who come to live in Paradise, and take advantage of our kindness. And if we don't agree with their foreign attitude or live by their means, they always say where's our "ALOHA". It's just away, I guess, of protecting our way of life here in Paradise. The longer you live here the more you'll see what I mean. Anyway welcome to Hawaii, and thank you for supporting wrestling in Hawaii. Aloha Braddah,

          • Lee Foster says:

            I am still waiting on the HAWKEYE STAFF MEMBER'S name and that date you said he was here.

  27. Coach Lucas says:

    wow. This thread has picked up some momentum. My reason for writing this article was to publicize internal thoughts and keep the focus on moving our sport forward.

    -Wrestling can never gain the popularity of the media sports-. does that mean its popularity cant be a notch right below these sports? I think working on the positives, as any coach should do with their kids, is what needs to be built on.

    -coaches and volunteers put out a lot of their own time effort and money, for likely no more compensation than a thank you- Why can soccer clubs charge up to a couple thousand dollars, but charging 50 bucks for a wrestler at club is unreasonable?

    -Punahou recruits wrestlers- everyone accuses Punahou of doing this, until you have a family member or friends child that wants to go to Punahou, and then you wish Punahou would recruit them.

    just some thoughts. I have more which will probably be written in another article

    • Anonymous says:

      Just heard through the grapevine that there will be a club folkstyle season prior to our high school season very similar to how they do it in the mainland.

      Lets see if we can support this effort…

      I heard Lee Foster had something to do with this and if so, Thank you.

      • Anonymous says:

        There has been club folkstyle seasons prior to the high school season for yours…it's called PAL.

        • Anonymous1 says:

          PAL for the little ones only, no high school participation which is like the high school kids not having any college to wrestle after high school.

          The clubs play a critical role in developing these kids and once they get to high school we have no place for them to refine their technique prior to their regular season. This will allow great mat time for all the kids 4-18 this also promotes the club and high school participants.

          This is very common practice in the states

        • Anonymous says:

          I heard PAL isn't doing wrestling this year. Something about budget cuts and APEC.

          • So sad says:

            I heard , because of what had happen at the PAL wrestling tournament when the coach lost control of his emotions and really showed everyone the true side of himself and poor leadership. It's not how the PAL league whats to be represented. I also heard there was too many complaints and Honolulu's finest created PAL for the kids to bring positive influences in to their young lives. But it's to bad it took one person to ruin it for everyone. So sad!

            • Anonymous says:

              What happened?

              • Nacho Libre says:

                Here's the clip that's being talked about. Coach was having a tough day and forgot that people were actually there with 1 person recording what he said.


              • Anonymous says:

                If you think about it, we're all at fault for what happened there. It wasn't the first time it happened, almost in identical fashion.

                Same is true for "losing" PAL sponsorship, assuming that's actually a bad thing. It happened because we let it.

                BUT, seems like the Coach had some valid points, however rough they came out. You NEVER confront a ref face to face if you're a parent, if for no other reason than it ain't gonna help. The solutions are to observe boundaries (hard as that is) but also to demand good refing so that there's no incentive or cause to confront.

                Of course, if the ref personally assaults or abuses your kid, then that's different, because he/she ain't a ref anymore. But I've never seen that happen.

                If there's a venue made available, we all gotta make sure to take care of it. Venue availability is a very precious commodity and the biggest barrier to increased wrestling in Hawaii. We want more? We gotta do it better. At the very least to avoid accusations, or recrimination, or any pretense for denying use.

                Alternatively, we're not making the concerted effort to let those that control venues that they can, should, and really, really should make venues more available for wrestling. The guys who do it now have only so much mental/emotional/time bandwith to give. And, to the decision makers (DOE, ADs, etc.), the folks knocking on the door trying to get in are easy to dismiss because they don't appear to be backed up by the substantial numbers that actually DO exist.

                It seems to me that the Coach felt he was entitled to take the action he did because he was making things happen. Not necessarily a good thing for the wrestling community to be in that position. But, we kind of chose to let that happen, didn't we?

                We're even responsible for the baggage being in Alabama, and the probably utter frustration and anxiety that contributed to the outburst. We let that kind of stuff happen.

              • Who is dis says:

                Man, that guy should practice what he preach. I've seen him argue with the refs many of times.

              • no mas says:

                Wow I didn't it was on youtube, but thanks for the link. Nacho.

      • Anonymous1 says:

        Have you seen their wrestler's? Punahou does not recruit wrestler's rather wrestler's recruit Punahou!

        Everyone wants to be a part of something "Great" look at their record over the last couple of years…teams are still playing for 2nd.

        Biggest threat is Lahina, making all the right off-season moves..wants a backseat to nobody

        Next Threat Kamehameha, never lacking talent perhaps drive but not talent

    • Anonymous says:

      "-Punahou recruits wrestlers- everyone accuses Punahou of doing this, until you have a family member or friends child that wants to go to Punahou, and then you wish Punahou would recruit them."

      Are you actually accusing Punahou of recruiting wrestlers? Or, was that a heading for your thought?

      If you're accusing could you give facts and details, please.

      • eFamous says:

        Clearly, his bullet points are addressing the topic he is writing about…

        As for the preseason, season, I think it will be usaw sanctioned, not just pal, but I'm waiting for more details on it to be released.

  28. Coach Jimmy says:

    Just a heads-up: I'm going to upgrade the comment system here soon. Nothing earth shattering (and no reaplacement for a forum). But should help follow conversations a little easier. Just didn't want people to be too shocked when the comments looked different.

  29. Coach Jimmy says:

    Migrating old comments to new comment system…thanks for your patience!

  30. Anonymous says:

    This new comment thingy makes me miss the old comment thingy

    • eFamous says:

      This new comment thingy makes me giddy, don't have to put up with bs posts anymore 😀

    • Coach Jimmy says:

      I'm still getting used to it myself. Quick tip: at the top of the comments you'll see "Sort by:" — click latest activity and it'll show you the most recent comments/threads at the top. Easier to see what was going on since your last logon.

      Use the thumbs up/down buttons (even for anonymous). I'm curious whether "Guests" will still get uniquely ranked.

      My intention here is to make the comments easier to follow/use, but please use the forum for off-topic discussions (like this one ;).

  31. Anonymous says:

    Here's some food for thought:

    At most high school baseball venues, no admission is charged, and definitely none for JV events (cannot charge admission at CORP, most school fields, and Ala Wai).

    No admission is charged for Water Polo (apparently, when admission was charged, people would just stand outside the pool gates and watch from the outside).

    Soccer: no admission charged until States (CORP, Kapiolani).

    We ALWAYS pay admission for Varsity AND many JV events (e.g. championship tourneys). I understand the school fundraising admission collections. But regular season and league playoff event revenues go to the leagues and organizations.

    On one hand, wrestling is good for the schools because its events actually generate revenues.

    On the other hand, how fair is it that wrestling is actually generating revenue off admissions from the most lowly events, while other resource eating sports generate none during a regular season?

    • eFamous says:

      it's hard to compare outdoor sports to indoor sports. look at wreslings main competition for gym space: basketball,and volleyball, both have boys/girls divisions that don't usually run at the same time, so year round usage of the gym is in place. wrestling has to compete with those sports, and I think the revenue pull from those two sports are what makes it more attractive.

      look at it from a parents perspective, you pay approximately the same amount to watch your child wrestle a max of 15-20 minutes max at a duel meet. Unless you are very supportive of the team and not just your kid, you are sitting around for 2-3 hours just to watch your child wrestle 15-20 minutes. it's hard to get a lot of motivation for people to go to meets unless you enjoy watching the whole team wrestle.

      I don't have scientific proof, but I feel and agree with others when we try to promote the sport through education and understanding the sport. that way people can get a wider appreciation of it. Why do you think football, soccer, and basketball are so widely supported? they're easily understandable games that have simple scoring for the most part. Now if you educate people to understand the scoring and what's involved into getting everyone on the mat, a greater appreciation and thus support would be built (imo).
      How to go about doing this? I'm not totally sure, but matside is a great way to start pushing people in a positive/educational direction to understanding and supporting wrestling/judo/etc. the toughest part about teaching people the sport is that scores are basically judgement based on the referee's part. there is no gray line of 'in the basket' or 'in the goal line'. there's a huge gray area in wrestling, in terms of scoring, which is something that should be addressed and understood/acknowledged.

      sorry for going off on a tangent, but those are my thoughts :).

      • Anonymous says:

        Those are all fair comments.

        First, as to outdoor and indoor sports, the point is cost effectiveness, and to some degree, fairness.

        Take football, baseball, softball and soccer. I think only football charges regularly for admission to regular season games. But what is the cost compared to wrestling?

        When you compare baseball, softball and soccer, think about the size of the playing fields, what it takes to maintain them in terms of labor and other maintenance costs, and think about the fact that wrestling fans get charged admission, while none of those sports do for regular season events.

        Then, think about the square footage used PER ATHLETE for any of those outdoor sports, and compare to wrestling.

        Then, think about the equipment costs (school provided equipment) for the outdoor sports. Compare that to what wrestling is provided.

        It all seems somewhat unbalanced (with the exception of football), when you consider that as a wrestling fan, you have to pay several times a year to watch wrestling, while baseball, softball and soccer fans don't. There's something very, very incongruous about that.

        I'd respond this way concerning gym space and wrestling/volleyball/basketball.

        First, I think there are few basketball or volleyball individual games that outsell a multi-team wrestling event. Unlike wrestling, neither volleyball nor basketball (high school style) are amenable to running multiple games between teams at the same time. I believe in the smallish Maryknoll gym, you can run 3 wrestling mats, and thus matches concurrently. Even more in Punahou's and Kamehameha's. On a per student served, per family served, and just simply in terms of use of space, wrestling is far more efficient and cost effective. Particularly when you throw in admission.

        Further, in the ILH, only the varsity levels of basketball and volleyball charge admission. No admission is charged for JV or intermediate basketball for either gender. Yet, in the case of either JV or intermediate basketball, the same amount of gym space and time is used for a JV as is a Varsity or Intermediate game. I don't know what they do in the OIA, but in the ILH, they run some JV and Varsity wrestling events concurrently. Thus, while an ILH JV basketball parent pays nothing to watch their kid play, a JV wrestling parent pays often.

        I grant you that BIG basketball and volleyball games have the ability to draw well. But, overall, I think the bulk of high school volleyball and basketball event attendees tend to be parents, family members and friends. And, that's on the varsity level. At the JV and Intermediate levels, take out the friends and a good portion of the family members.

        It comes down to fairness. If you think about it, you can come to no conclusion by that wrestling is treated "unfairly" vis a vis other high school sports. And, that's simply wrong.

        Whether its allocation of space, allocation of resources to keep up the respective spaces, access to facilities, or charging one group of parents admission and not others, there is a fairness issue.

        Think about a Varsity wrestler and then add in that wrestler's classmate Varsity basketball player. Why does the basketball player get to play in a gym excusively 10 -12 times a regular season (2x per team in the division), while the wrestler uses gyms 2 or 3 times a regular season? Is the wrestler a lesser student somehow? Is the wrestler a lesser person? What is the purpose of sports in the high school context? Is there a greater likelihood of important educational or life lessons in basketball over wrestling?

        I think we know the answers to all of those questions. I think what needs to be done is to educate the schools and leagues on the answers to those questions.

        JV wrestling has no regular season Dual matches. Whereas one might see an entire gym devoted twice a season to two single Iolani v. Damien in boys intermediate basketball games, Damien v. Iolani wrestling JV's never happen, much less happen in even a multi contest dual meet event.

        • eFamous says:

          You're preaching to the choir here, I don't disagree with your points. All of them are very valid. The problem isn't fairness, it's demand. Like I said, football, basketball, etc all have a big following because a lot of people understand the sport from scoring to strategy, it's not rocket science to play those sports. However, try to explain wrestling to someone who has never wrestled before, it's almost night and day. This is because there is a lack of promotion/interest in the sport due to a lack of understanding of the details and work that it takes to be one of the best.
          That is why I feel education and promotion is the first steps to growing the wrestling audience, interest, and experience. A good place to start would be to educate people on the details of the scoring system, ask 10 people to explain a takedown, half will probably explain it in a different way than the others (data analysis is still pending… ;)). How can we expect to grow and promote a sport where the supporters, not even public, don't totally understand the rules. Do you see where I'm going with this? We can't be like "we have rights! Everything should be equal!" when that isn't the root of the problem. It's a lot easier to grow the sport when everyone understands what the sport is about, ie: not just "grabbing other guys"

          • Anonymous says:

            To me that raises a "chicken and egg" as well as an "if a tree falls in the forest" question.

            What comes first? Interest in the sport? Or understanding of the rules (or more realistically, a desire to gain an understanding of the rules?).

            And, if we promote rules or the wrestling scoring system, will there be any ears there to hear it? Will there be anyone who WANTS to hear it (which is a big prerequisite to them hearing it)?

            You can take out an ad in the newspaper right now – double paged – and set forth the wrestling scoring rules. I think the only people who are going to read it are those already interested in wrestling. And, if by chance a person with no knowledge of wrestling were to take the time to read it, it could easily appear dreadfully boring without live context, or appear to be just one more bomb amongst the bombardment of information we're exposed to on a daily basis.

            Providing all the information in the world won't help if it won't stick.

            And, even if the education and promotion approach were to attract people in, what would they find? A sport that's treated institutionally in Hawaii like a second class citizen.

            Although, I do really agree with you that there are things to be promoted, and that educating people on certain aspects of wrestling would be helpful (more on that at the bottom – if I get that far this morning).

            And, in theory, I agree with your perspective – but in idealistic theory ONLY. Because, once you understand the rules of wrestling, it is a fascinating sport. Once you become educated about the intricacies and ebb and flow of a wrestling match, there is nothing better. If people were smart, they would see that by reading the rules, and knowing what they are. But people ain't so smart now days.

            We disagree, and you say, ""we have rights! Everthing should be equal!" . . . isn't the root of the problem". I say it is the root of the problem. More than anything else. And, I believe making the primary focus of any campaign the institutional decision makers is the way to go. Because, the "problem" presented is how to grow the sport.

            Here's why: Girls basketball.

            And, let me start with a premise that I may be totally wrong on. My premise is this: Girl's basketball is totally uninteresting to everyone but the (1) players and (2) coaches, (3) the families of the girls playing, (4) those who get involved out of devotion or interest in the advancement of women's rights (whether because of vested interest or pay), (5) some fringe element that regularly watches girls basketball regardless of whether they have an interest in a specific player because of love of girls basketball (I assume such a person exists, but I have yet to meet actually meet such a person) and (6) institutions desiring to avoid being called "sexist", unfair, or non-compliant with Title IX.

            Categories 1 – 5 constitute the girls basketball fan base. It is small. Vocal (really vocal and scary) but small. I think it is actually naturally smaller than the wrestling fan base (because it eliminates generally eliminates families of boys, or families of boys and girls where the girls have used up their basketball eligibility).

            There's nothing wrong, in my view, with either the interests or actions of categories 1-5 in growing their sport. More power to 'em, in fact.

            But, category 6 is the key. When the actors in category 6 decided, or were compelled to make girls basketball robust, girls basketball became robust (at least from a resource allocation and participation standpoint). If there is a high level of participation, I think much of it has to do with opportunity and commitment by the schools to provide resources. In my view, if an otherwise intrinically unattractive sport (like girls basketball) portrays or presents itself as something institutionally supported and resource rich, people will be drawn to it.

            Alternatively, take away the resources, take away the semblance of support, and people won't be as drawn to it. Whether or not they understand the rules.

            I would submit that people long understood the "rules" of girls basketball (because they are basically the same rules as male basketball) from long ago. But interest only grew as participation by the girls themselves grew, participation only grew after institutions like schools committed to providing opportunity resources for the sport, and institutions only did that based on "we have rights! Everything should be equal!" arguments.

            cont.

  32. Anonymous says:

    Continuation

    The "we have rights! Everything should be equal!" argument is a very compelling one. In fact, I think it might be the only one that will work in Hawaii. Because the entities and people that have to be moved are either a governmental entity (DOE), or entities that serve customers (Private Schools).

    I think the institutions themselves WANT to be fair, and want to be perceived as being fair. But, I honestly do not think they are able to see themselves as being "unfair" to wrestling. I think that's because of two things: (1) as the overall athletic machine in Hawaii rolls along, there's little time for the decision makers to think about such issues, and therefore, they won't. (2) we don't do a good job of making our relatively substantial numbers and interests known or at issue – which would bring the issue of "fariness" front and center.

    There's also a squeaky wheel element. For whatever reason, the wrestling community has "accepted" the lot it has been given, the hand it's been dealt. It is not a squeaky wheel (nothing near to what the girls basketball lobby is). For some reason, we oil ourselves.

    I guess my view is based on these primary premises: In Hawaii, high school sports are an extremely important generator of interest in a given sport. For kids 9-12, the easiest (and often cheapest) entry into a sport is whatever a school offers. The extent to which the school "concentrates" on the sport has a direct relationship to the popularity of the sport, whether it becomes generated due to resultant peer magnetism or attraction to the bells and whistles. If schools were to increase commitment to wrestling, I think it would increase interest in the schools, and therefore the community.

    I think we have the basis to ask for more attention.

    To me, the only argument left is "it's not fair". We already have the numbers (to such an extent that the "it's not fair" argument is a statistically simple one to make). We also have a glaring imbalance (again, so much so, that the "it's not fair" argument is a statisticall/mathematically easy one to make). And, we have great arguments about the intangible/intrinsic/consistent with education mission perspectives that educational decision makers need to at least appear to be concerned about.

    But, having those things means nothing unless they are brought to the attention of decision makers in a meaningful and effective way. To me, do that and the door opens wider. I think that if you email everyone in your, mine and everyone else's address book the rules of wrestling, with video links even, and you get a resounding, figurative thud. So, to me, it's most important to ask politely, logically, persistently, and in choir numbers, for greater attention and allocation of resources to wrestling by decision makers.

    Finally, along with all of that clearly comes the need to promote. But to me, the target should be the multi faceted interests of parents. To me, the extent to which wrestling serves those interests is what should be promoted broadly. Because, as a general matter, I don't think kids get into wrestling without a great deal of parental support. And, because of some of the things you've pointed out, it's important and I think it would be very effective, to help people like parents understand the virtues of wrestling with more depth.

    Sorry, already gone long, I'm sure I'll feel inclined to write about "what" I think should be communicated/promoted and "why" later.

    • eFamous says:

      again, good points, the equality point will always have the argument will pretty much always be valid. the thing about it is that if you want to be 'fair' and 'equal' you basically have to go through the law in order for that to happen. I am no lawyer, but my understanding is that it can be a pain in the ass or a huge pain in the ass, depending on how much support you have for or against you. I am not saying that if you go that route it will never get done, but it will take time, lots of time.
      To get where female basketball got with title 9, it takes a lot of time and money to lobby/support for it to get done from what I can perceive. Again, I am not saying it will not get done, but it will take a lot of resources in order to do so.

      my idea is sort of like the slow foods concept (buy local, eat fresh, know what you're getting, etc), it's a simple concept that takes awareness and education. I don't expect wrestling to change over night, but I want to grow an appreciation of the sport. it's hard to appreciate something you don't understand. the more you understand it, the more you will enjoy it and want to support/share it with others.
      This is something simple that doesn't take a lot of implementation, time or resources. A promotional video on youtube between matmeticians and matside on basic/advanced rules as a resource would be pretty awesome i think, and simple to do.

      Sorry my points aren't as thorough, but I hope you understand my ideas and concepts, I am liking the discussion, just wish we had others to give their well thought out (;)) opinions on the topic.

  33. Coach Lucas says:

    I didnt get a chance to read the entire conversation, it was rather lengthy, but i do know this, educating the people on what they are watching is KEY. I'll admit, i dont watch too much matches unless i know who they are, what they've done, and what's at stake. All that is answered with credentials and stats. Everyone is a stat person, why do you think Fantasy Football is growing immensly popular with the casual fan? because its all about the stats.
    Matside Hawaii does a great job of creating a place go for the community, we still need more help in getting everybody to see the matchups we see, cause right now, if youre not in the know, its hard to get excited.
    I agree efamous, if you dont know what your watching, its so easy to change the channel. Maybe i could make a video that might hold peoples interest, and explain the sport, but that does seem like a challenging video

  34. anano says:

    does anyone knows if you still need a usaw card, even if you are on the high school team, to wrestling in the up coming tournament?

  35. Lee Foster says:

    Thank you, to all the young men and women that showed up tonight for the HI-Flyers practice. Great heart and effort was put forth, and this is where things will only begin. I am truly honored to be provided an opportunity to assist in coaching and teaching all of you in a sport I know we all share a great passion for. I was pleased to hear the 2 groups I was near that you would drag me off the mat if I passed out HAHA! I hope we can have this much fun in the near and far future. Thank you all again and the staff is eager to see you all again!!

    • eFamous says:

      HI-Flyers… I think I heard some stuff about that club… Is there any further information on the club?

      • Lee Foster says:

        If you have Facebook add them on there. Jake tries to keep all updated with information. It is listed under Hi-Flyers. I don't think all the particulars are finalized but there are practices next Tues. and Weds. from 6-8:30 i believe at Kamehameha High School, and more info will be handed out then. Also, this is open to all wrestlers across the state.

        • eFamous says:

          I never saw any set practice schedule set on the page, but that's cool. how big was the turn out? who's the coaching staff there? how were the practices run? seems like a great place to be at.

          • Lee Foster says:

            Jake has to go to Minnesota for his brothers wedding. A set schedule and other information will be provided once he returns. The turn out was great. A great core group of young men and women. Hard to answer how the practice was ran, I would suggest just coming in and checking it out.

          • hi flyers says:

            Aloha,

            We are currently in the process of building this club and are planning on having a set schedule by the first week in October. We have some very big plans, and they include many different ways to help the sport of wrestling here in Hawaii. The more involvement we have from the wrestling community, the more opportunities we will be bringing to the youth.

            Practices will be held September 27th and 28th at Kamehameha, from 6:00-8:00. Any wrestlers or parents willing to stay until 8:30 are more than welcome, and we will be there to help with technique, answer any questions at that time, or monitor the kids if they want to continue with open mat. These practices are open to all youth or high school wrestlers FROM ANY SCHOOL as long as you have a valid USA Wrestling card, which can be purchased at the beginning of practice for $35, or online at http://www.themat.com and go to "Membership" at the top of page.

            The turnout for the first practice was decent. We had wrestlers from Kamehameha, Punahou, Kapolei, Pearl City, and maybe a few other spots? We're definitely hoping to have wrestlers from all over the island as this all comes together. We've only had one practice and it was ran smoothly, or so I think? But I was the one running it, so of course I have to think like that! ha ha.
            -Warm up
            -Gymnastics
            -Drilling
            -"Matrix Wrestling"
            -Wrestling
            -Discussion

            Once the schedule is set, the practice routine will be adjusted a bit.

            The coaching staff as of now is:

            Head Coach Jake Clark: 2012 Olympic Hopeful, 2007 Greco-Roman World Cup Champion, 6x U.S. National Champion, 2x World Team Member, 2004 Olympic Alternate, and wrestling coach and training partner for BJ Penn: http://www.intermatwrestle.com/articles/7349 http://www.intermatwrestle.com/articles/1370 http://www.themat.com/section.php?section_id=3&amhttp://www.theguillotine.com/club/06/60519clark.hhttp://kstp.com/article/stories/S2100545.shtml?cahttp://www.themat.tv/2010/12/14/matchat-podcast-jhttp://www.camplejeuneglobe.com/sports/base/artic

            Assistant Coach Keitani Graham- Has wrestled in 4 World Championships representing the Federated States of Micronesia (Guangzhou, China-2006; Baku, Azerbaijan-2007; Moscow, Russia-2010; Istanbul, Turkey-2011), and is currently a 2012 Olympic Hopeful for the FSM.

            Assistan Coach Leland Foster- Coached his nephew to the Iowa High School State Championships 4 years in a row, 3 of which he won. In 8 years of coaching at Mason City Newman Catholic he assisted in bringing 17 wrestlers to the Iowa High School State Tournament, 15 of which placed.

            Lucas Misaki is also an Assistant Coach with our club, but due to ILH rules he can NOT have contact (technique wise) with any of the Kamehameha wrestlers in our club. He will be there to help with wrestlers from other schools and also to be fully involved following the high school season.

            Every Saturday Jake and Keitani will be hiking Koko Head as part of their preparation for making the 2012 Olympic Team (USA and FSM). All wrestlers and parents are welcome to join, and the hike starts at 10! This weekend we have a VERY special guest joining us on our hike. If you're a wrestler in Hawaii, you don't want to miss this. If you have any questions, please let us know. We are very excited at the opportunity to help the sport of wrestling here in Hawaii.

            Mahalo and Aloha,

            Jake Clark

  36. Kalani says:

    As this season begins…..

    If you would all band together and get Hawaii Wrestling back to the COLLEGIATE stage, Hawaii high school wrestling would reach a different level. Every state that has great high school wrestling, has great college wrestling. Almost twenty years ago I tried to bring Wrestling back to the University of Hawaii. Meeting after meeting, I was told point blank that would not happen for another 10 years. Here we are in the year 2011 and no progress has been made in that regard. If you value your beliefs as much as your forum posts, you would try and make that happen.

    I am a former Hawaii High School wrestler, NCAA Div 2 STARTER, and Head Coach of a high school team here in my second home of Colorado. I was informally recruited to a college here, paid my dues as a back-up and eventually earned my spot on the varsity squad. Believe me when I say that what the state needs is a college team.

  37. Coach Carter says:

    Lyon College puts out High School Girls TEAM national rankings. All Call to HI girl teams and state tournament directors. Please record points and a State TEAM Title. We will be using this information to record the first ever Girl National Team Rankings. If you have information on the best HS girl TEAMS in KS please submit it to me.

    Please see the current rankings at

    http://lyonheartwrestling.wordpress.com/hs-girl-ranking/

    Also girls interested in wrestling at Lyon College in Arkansas please check us out at

    http://www.lyonheartwrestling.wordpress.com

    Kevin Carter
    469-307-9613

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